What's the weirdest defense you've seen used to justify belief in God?
-
On the hottest day of the year a few years ago, the Mormons were out door knocking in their little suits. They were clearly not having a good time so we invited them in for a cold drink just to offer them some respite from the afternoon sun.
They got me to read a passage about Joseph Smith going into a cave and feeling euphoric and were like "well how do does that make you feel" and I'm like "what? I know people who've had more convincing experiences than that who still aren't religious because they knew they were on drugs"
They came back again a few times until it was clear we're absolutely not becoming Mormons.
I sometimes wonder if it occurs to them that we were probably better christians than most actual Christians they've met, even without the blackmail.
-
What if there's a god and they hate anyone who believes in them?
-
I wouldn't say it was weird, I think it's one of the better arguments since it only relies on pure hard nosed practicality, but it still doesn't hold water for the reasons you say. I think at least within the constructs of what it considers, it's logical, it's just that it fails to consider too much, among which, whether or not belief in the existence of something like that can just be chosen on the basis of what would be practically expedient.
It could be demonstrated to me that belief in Santa Claus can have material benefits, and failure to believe will mean that, if he does exist, you will no longer receive gifts. With that logic it would make more sense to believe in Santa Claus than not to, since there's no downside to believing and being wrong and a potentially negative consequence to lacking that belief and being wrong. The problem is that, I can't sincerely believe in something that for all intents and purposes I can say I "know" isn't real simply because I would like to enjoy the hypothetical benefits and avoid the hypothetical consequences. I can say I believed in Santa Clause, if doing so meant that someone was going to give me gifts, but saying it and believing it are distinct concepts so the wager would be more persuasive as a means of deciding whether or not to declare belief in something than believe it.
-
That kind of phrasing always seems they assume that not believing is the same as rejecting and therefore you too believe in the existence of God/god.
They just completely miss the point.
-
Hahaha I love that this is written as "he had a religious experience WHILE talking to a chair", not "he had a religious experience AND talked to a chair". Dude's just having a normal conversation with a chair and then something weird and unexplained occurred that put him on the path to god. I wonder if the chair was as convinced.
-
It also doesn't make any sense why it would be the Christian god if that's the reasoning because I think rather a lot of different religions would happily take credit for whatever it is they thought made the world "perfect" so why would the Christian claim to this perfection be any stronger than any other?
-
Anything, anything, random mutations.
-
Yeah thats why i mentioned them saying it was proof of christianity specifically. A lot of christians refuse to aknowledge other religions being equally valid (or more so tbh for the older ones.)
-
"I don't personally understand it, therefore God did it"
(Argument from Ignorance, or God of the Gaps fallacy)I hear this with regard to evolution, chemistry, bacteria, weather. They don't know how something works, that's proof enough for them. Eventually they say "then how was the universe created? There had to have been a creator!" (First cause argument) Or "The eye is so complicated, it had to be designed" (Watchmaker Fallacy)
I used to listen to The Atheist Experience podcast, but it got repetitive hearing the same arguments from religious people, over and over. I also didn't like how mean the hosts could get sometimes, but I understand their frustration..
-
There's also one massive miscalculation in there.
What if the "real god" prefers non-believers to believers in the wrong gods? What if he's jealous, and only his believers and non-believers go to heaven, while all believers of wrong gods go to hell?
-
Ah yeah "all atheists just hate god," I forgot that was a thing. Could be the case, it was a long time ago
-
Well I'm being a little deceptive for the joke of course, but he just felt like Jesus was sitting in the chair and then talked to the invisible Jesus.
The guy ended up doing a bunch of stuff at my highschool and which really bugged me because he only ever had surface level religious phrases to say (motivational speaker kinda stuff but with more Jesus) that glossed over some really big issues we were all facing at the time.
-
“Because I can’t cope with a world where bad people don’t go to Hell.”
-
May I put my own believe and thinking of the topic "God"?
I see God as something real in a metaverse. Everyone has a copy of God in our Brains. God is just a Blueprint, similar to a program or a peace of code. When multiple people believe in the same God, they feel and think in the same direction and apply the rules that the blueprint is given.
I see lots of benefits of having some more powerful being in your mind. To process emotions better that are too strong to handle alone with no hope. But there are also many cases where great mathematicians could go so far, because they tripped into infinities and understood many patterns. A god being is just our structure of society.
The sad part about the believe of god is that people think its more than real. That people should die because God wants to and etc. Because in our Physical world exists nothing that has to do with god. Its all Natural Selection, DNA code executing the right proteins to build things and neurons learning the patterns.
-
I was indoctrinated on Ray Comfort, I knew who it was going to be before clicking on the link
-
Thank you for leading me to find this book. I will enjoy reading it.
-
Matt used to he a firebrand on the Atheist Experience. He's moved on to The Line show and continues with call-ins.
His "meanness" has been refined and aimed strictly at bad faith actors who call in. People who are honest and straightforward don't get yelled at.
-
This is really the primary death knell for the argument. Yes, there billions and billions of "god" variations - but at least believing in one might get you a (near-zero) better chance at a decent afterlife.
...until you realize the category of "Gods who dont want your worship".
-
I'd also say, the fundamental point of it (that finite cost in life is worth the chance at infinite reward or avoiding infinite punishment) is pretty abysmal morally. Pretty easy to justify atrocities for any concept of God that way as a rational approach to life.
