What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?
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Yes, if you are aware of someone's preferred pronouns and choose to ignore them.
It's arguably ignoring their preferences, but how is it misgendering? they/them is gender neutral-- it implies nothing about their gender at all.
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I suppose to me, one's moral weight is in their mind. If someone has no mind -- such as a brain-dead patient -- then they aren't really a person. Seeing as there's no reason to believe there's an immediate jump in neural development in a baby at the moment of birth, I do not believe it's a special moment for the baby in a moral accounting sense. So I don't think the baby becomes more intrinsically worthy of life at the precise moment it draws its first breath.
(For the parent, of course, it is a special moment, and in particular new options are available outside of the keep-or-abort dichotomy.)
As for being an individual, I don't really see how the child's autonomy is relevant. It's still fully dependent on its parents and society and could not function on its own.
It's dependent on a caretaker, but not necessarily on its own mother. Neural development also does take a big step starting at birth because the baby is now receiving stimuli.
If someone has no mind – such as a brain-dead patient – then they aren’t really a person.
This is gonna be a fun thread
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So what is the alternative to "downvoting" someone's opinion? You can't support it, obviously, that would be stupid. I just see no other way than "downvoting", saying "well, I see where you're coming from, but your opinion is wrong and doesn't achieve what you want".
I think downvoting serves to make an opinion less visible, so you should remember that when you are downvoting someone you disagree with, it is serving to make their opinion less visible. Downvoting hostile or dangerous or low-quality comments is good, but downvoting dissenting opinions in general leads to polarization.
I would rather spend time in a community with many different perspectives than just one perspective, which is why I don't downvote people simply because I disagree with them.
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Related: I believe it's ok, given certain contexts, to speak broadly and crassly to people who expect that. It's ultimately ineffective and therefore bad to come off as an pretenscious arrogant know-it-all, correcting everyone's grammar and word choices and any ignorance they have. I see some students in the labor movement and wonder if they're capable of expressing their knowledge to typical joe worker, without injecting French, German or Russian, or losing their temper at some unintentionally offensive ignorance. We're speaking broadly to regular people, don't alienate them with your academic knowledge.
That doesn't mean never correct crappy things people say, you can and should, but pick your battles. A climate scientist once told me, being correct isn't enough.
being correct isn’t enough
A very valuable lesson, and it's very fitting who said it
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I think we need to figure out how to make leftism more appealing to centrists, and particularly to the cis/straight/white/male demographic.
I feel like one obvious answer is "stop being so eager to alienate cis straight white men"
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100% agree. I honestly think that in ~2015, the left's failure to appeal to young white men caused them to turn to the alt right. I think we scared them off with things like "check your privilege" etc., and should have focused more on getting them amped about class warfare.
Agreed 100%. I'm glad we're collectively starting to realize this. It's a bit late, but hopefully it'll still do good.
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Your example is about as spicy as lukewarm water. The responses I got involved the words "bootlicker", "nazi", "fascist", and "chud", various expletives, called into question my mental health and respect for minorities, and listed several examples of why holding those views made me the scum of the earth.
I appreciate you keeping it real. It sucks that this community's response to dissenting views is so often hostility. I haven't looked at your comment history so maybe you really are a fascist, I don't know; if so, this doesn't apply. But if not -- I do wish people would think about how to bring people around to their point of view instead of rejecting them.
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Agreed 100%. I'm glad we're collectively starting to realize this. It's a bit late, but hopefully it'll still do good.
Well, I posted about this in this topic because I think it's not a perspective that's gained traction. Please help spread the good word..!
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I feel like one obvious answer is "stop being so eager to alienate cis straight white men"
I think this advice is not very actionable as is, and needs more digesting into more specific strategies.
Like, for instance: let's avoid making people feel rejected by the left for having privilege, and instead focus on guiding privileged people so that they can use their privilege to help the cause.
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It's dependent on a caretaker, but not necessarily on its own mother. Neural development also does take a big step starting at birth because the baby is now receiving stimuli.
If someone has no mind – such as a brain-dead patient – then they aren’t really a person.
This is gonna be a fun thread
Perhaps "not a person" isn't the right way to put it. More like "already passed away." I was being a bit provocative, sorry.
Regarding stimuli -- fair enough, that is a good argument actually. But to me that indicates a "kink" in the graph of their moral worth; it ought to resemble a point where they start gaining moral worth, but not a point where they immediately have it.
Of course, this is all very speculative, vibes-based and handwavey. I don't know how to define someone's moral worth -- which is precisely why I don't see why birth is special to one's moral worth.
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"Libertarian" is far more broad than, say, Marxist-Leninist or Anarcho-Communist. When you go from "Marxist" as an umbrella to "Marxist-Leninist" as a category within Marxism, you are generally conforming to that specification's tendencies. At that point of specificity, there are more "solved" questions than unsolved.
Oh yeah sure. More solved questions than unsolved seems like a good way to put it. But there are still points of dissent though.
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Well, I didn't say all animals, I said the ones we create. When you create an individual, the act places in that individuals debt. You don't own them, you owe them. We have a duty not to harm all individuals on Earth so far as we can help it, but we have far greater responsibilities to those individuals that we bring into existence. There is no difference, morally, between forcing a child and forcing an animal to exist.
I do find topics like natalism and deathism quite fascinating. I'm not certain you're correct, but I do think what you're saying is very plausible. I lean more utilitarian, so I find it hard to justify the notion of debt to a specific entity -- after all, if you can do right by the entity you create, shouldn't it be equally good to do right by another entity?
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As someone who was in a supportive relationship with a transgender person for 3 years and who personally struggles associating with my own gender, I never really got into the stating my gender pronouns.
I get why it's done for the times it matters and can do so in a sensitive space, but I get the sense it's usually done as public compliance (like a cis neolib as an email sig), which can lead to shallow support or worse, resentment. What we ultimately need is more genuine contact with people different from ourselves because that helps reduce "othering" a group.
Oh, but I do tend to default to "they" out of old internet habits. Always disliked the assumption all gamers are men.
It makes me uncomfortable to state my personal pronouns. Years of growing up as a woman on the internet makes me not want to reveal my gender, even when it's obvious (like in person).
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No proof is absolutely undeniable. Especially not in an age when generative AI will soon be able to fabricate evidence easily.
DNA based proofs are pretty undeniable unless you have a twin.
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Consider the scenario where you meet a man. You know his name is Bradley (either through mutual friends or whatever), but he introduces himself as Alex. You can call him Bradley, and it would be technically correct, but it would be slightly rude when he has explicitly given his preferred name as Alex.
I don't think that's quite right. It's more like referring to him by another title such as "a friend of mine" or "a person I met" etc.
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Immigration is universally a roaring net positive in all of history ; economically, socially, everything. It's more than disinformation when they spew talking points. It's hate. And most people complicit are just fully ignorant. USA lost their empire due to lack of education. Every other first world nations have their success in lockstep with the level of education they give their kids. A heist of all wealth has been conducted and you are viewing the aftermath. Elon will find your coffers empty. The real treasure, turns out, was the people.
Is it your political creed commonly against immigration?
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I would argue calling all they/them is the opposite of misgendering. "They" has no gender. It is neuter.
"Intentional non-gendering" seems sensible and inoffensive. No chance of misgendering anyone.
I have met one person (in real life) who uses she/he pronouns. I asked if I can call her they and she said no. I don't know what to make of this, personally, as I'm unable to understand it, but I do try to abide by her request. I suspect she is an outlier though.
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DNA based proofs are pretty undeniable unless you have a twin.
It's not necessarily true. I mean you could be framed with your DNA. I'm not arguing that it's plausible, just not absolutely undeniable. For instance, I would bet dollars to donuts that somebody has tried to frame someone else using their DNA.
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Well, I posted about this in this topic because I think it's not a perspective that's gained traction. Please help spread the good word..!
I've been thinking of starting some sort of group to help with that goal-- would you be interested? I'm not sure what we could do, but I want to do something, you know? I figure the best impact I can have is to convince other people that I mostly agree with to adopt this approach, which is what I envision the group could help with.
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The answer is no in both instances, hence why labor vouchers are only sensible in a centralized and publicly owned and planned economy that has gotten rid of the necessity for small commodity producers.
Interesting. That could work. Feels a little draconian though.
