nah it's natural
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We aren't putting it off. Already many countries are deploying renewable energy like it's going out of fashion, and have been for years. China, France, the UK, Spain, and India all have significant parts of their energy coming from renewables and nuclear, or are building more as we speak. Here in England our largest source of power is wind. People are already doing stuff about it, just not fast enough or universally enough. Technology for renewables and energy saving has gotten progressively better over the past several decades. Even fossil fuel technologies like cars and natural gas plants have gotten markedly more efficient meaning they produce less CO2 than they did previously, while also emitting lower levels of other pollutants too. It's even possible now to power planes with biofuels.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Nobody is going fast enough.
The fastest efforts going right now are half assed solutions.
I don't think you understand how urgently fucked we are.
Climate scientists are scientists. They can only tell youbwhat thry know. Science inherently moves slow, moves with certainty. Kind of the best thing about it.
But all these climate models keep getting hit with 'shit we didnt know could happen' and 'feedback effect nobody's ever seen before', even the grim ones.
So however bad the models are, we are more fuckef than that.
The turn radius on this thing is so slow that we may already be past the point of no return. Everything from here on might be a death rattle. Maybe, if you're young, from before you were born. We don't know how bad it is, we have sort of repeatedly proven that we can't know how bad it is, and all we know is how good it isn't.
And babe, its not good enough to be so fucking casual about shit.
Whatever effect you are currently feeling is the effect from our collected fuckedness 30 40 50 years ago. However fucked this summer felt? Thats the damage we had accrued and sent out when your parents were born.
Edit: we need to be at zero cars zero meat zero fossil fuels and decarbonizing as much production as we possibly can by now. We told the timeline where we could switch over gently to fuck off and die 50 years ago. I wasnt even fucking born yet. We told the timeline where we coukd just cut the shit and practice purely technical solutions with little lifestyle change (beyond things that are mostly good for us anyway) to fuck off and die 25 years ago. We let this go untreated, and now that the body is so wracked with cancer it's effecting our range of motion, and the doctors are desperately scrambling to set up a course of radical chemo radiation starvation and cutting to the bone in the desperate hope that there's still room for luck, we have decided that okay, maybe we might feel a little under the weather, and we can finally take the doctor's advice, and treat that upstart henry ford fellow with a baby asprin. But nothing crazy is called for here!
Am i the only one who feels insane when i have to explain this?
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Imagine there was no industrial revolution or fossil fuel bonanza.
World population, please?
Standard of living, please?
Typing on the internet? -
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Need graph source. Who had the thermometer in 12000 BC
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If someone told you that you had to give up your iPhone and video games to save the planet, i guarantee you wouldn’t, even knowing the benefit. People in the Industrial Revolution didn’t know this was coming
Well you're wrong.
I gave up having kids. It's the biggest effect I can have on my carbon footprint. Raised a few, but didn't add to the population.
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He's also delusional if he thinks AGI is coming if you just keep pumping up LLMs.
We didn't invent the automobile by breeding faster, and faster, horses.
He's not delusional, he's lying. He saw a chance to be the first trillionaire and grabbed at it
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Eh things will get more dire but doubt it's happening anywhere fast enough for that
What are you basing that conclusion on, other than vibes?
Seriously, have you looked at ANY of the data? Any reports or papers written by people who study it?
The theme is consistent among them: sooner and worse than expected.
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Sure but right now is arguably worse. To say they ignored this while we are basically ignoring Trump destroying America is the same thing. People are so dependent on their jobs most people don’t have the means or the time to quit their jobs and protest.
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The main difference is I don’t think “but, but, they were lied to” is an effective excuse
If you're sighting data collected in 1894 but discounting the education and media necessary to propagate that information to the general public, I'm not sure how the information is expected to disseminate.
Yeah, people were absolutely lied to - insidiously and exhaustively. That necessarily shapes their world views.
In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Liberal democracy is barely worthy of the term. Congress has had a single digit approval rating for decades. The president regularly is underwater in public support. The parties are privately owned and operated, periodically selecting their nominees without any democratic input. Voters are systematically gerrymandered and disenfranchised. Popular candidates are smeared, removed from ballots, denied access to debates, and outright prosecuted.
What do you say to the 60-80% of the population with no material representation in government?
I’m at fault
Unless I'm talking to a CEO of an energy company or a sitting Senator, I'm not clear what you are supposed to have done differently.
The modern moment is historically overdetermined. It's hubristic to pretend you have any control over it.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yeah, people were absolutely lied to - insidiously and exhaustively. That necessarily shapes their world views.
Yes, but people also see the truth. The information is there. Some people choose to believe the lies because it's convenient. They don't want to look into it. They don't want to listen to scientists, and instead choose to listen to politicians and companies.
Voters are systematically gerrymandered and disenfranchised. Popular candidates are smeared, removed from ballots, denied access to debates, and outright prosecuted.
Where are the riots? Where were the protests as Republicans red mapped? Why did they stop? Where was the blowback when Florida didn't give felons their right to vote back? Where are the riots when Republicans vote to remove the ability of citizens to add initiatives to the ballot?
What do you say to the 60-80% of the population with no material representation in government?
You don't need a vote to effect meaningful political change. Women couldn't vote. Until they could - through collective action.
Everyone chooses how to react and interface with the world. All the distortions in American democracy didn't materialize overnight.
People formed unions despite being murdered by pinkertons. Just because the system is fighting against us, doesn't absolve us of our responsibilities.
The modern moment is historically overdetermined. It's hubristic to pretend you have any control over it.
Correct my misunderstanding, but this tells me you have given up and think that nothing could have been done unless those with real power suddenly became altruistic in the past 3 decades.
And on that point, we may fundamentally disagree. I have to believe that citizens can effect change individually or collectively despite everything stacked against them. If I admit that the power differential is intractable and hopeless, then our only hope is a sudden wave of noblesse oblige to overcome people's greed, and we are truly fucked. Hubristic or not, I have to believe we have agency.
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Our parents didn't ignore it.
Our Governments, and the corporations who bribed those governments, just didn't give a shit enough to listen.
Stop it, my parents ignored climinate change, my dad still doesn't believe it.
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I am almost 70. I am very anecdotal, I understand.
In the 80’s after the fake energy scare (gas shortage one) that was all over the news saying we will have an ice age and other lies by the government I no longer listened or believed a word they said.
I tried to tell friends, family and anyone else I could (I was all pumped up after watching Carl Sagan’s Cosmos and his dire message) that we have to take better care of the planet etc. I was laughed at, told to shut the fuck up you stupid hippie and other such stuff. I gave up trying. Did my own thing to help a bit. Never bought new anything like cars, clothes, tech etc.
Still the same to this day.I see the same thing now by the majority of young folks and most others just like back in the day.
Hopefully at some point there will be a major shift in people’s thinking about our planet …
I read a stat like 70% of all carbon emissions come from like 10 sources, and our individual efforts is basically like pissing in the sea, its not going do much.
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You live in one of those places where the people you vote for do things you want, huh? Must be nice.
We can point fingers at governments and companies all day long, but unless something motivates them to change they're not going to. Right now the only real mechanisms we have at our disposal are our votes and our wallets. If people throw up their hands and can't even be arsed to leverage either of those things, nothing will change. Telling ourselves it's someone else's fault and doing nothing is the pinnacle of being part of the problem.
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Did they ignore it? Yes but the only reason they ignored it was because...
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The oil industry (and other adjacent industries) did their best to make sure everybody doubted the science of climate change
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Governments (the U.S gov't in particular) took the oil industry's side and subsidized their ventures
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Libertarian think tanks (like the Heritage Foundation and ALEC) took money from Big Oil to misinform the public about climate change and its connection to fossil fuel burning.
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Need graph source. Who had the thermometer in 12000 BC
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The problem is not the planet surviving, we know it'll most likely be fine eventually. The problem is that we're causing wide-spread death and destruction, including our own.
wrote last edited by [email protected]We evolved to be smart enough to be able to create and use tools, but not the wherewithal to prepare for compounding trends. Maybe this is the great extinction barrier that explains the Fermi paradox
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Thanks! Going down the rabbit hole now
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Not sure, but I think that wasn't because of higher temperatures but higher levels of oxygen in the atmosphere.
Correct! Insects have spiracles that basically passively exchange air. Max size is basically determined by this.
IIRC, some caterpillars only stop growing and pupate when they run out of a growth hormone.
I always wondered what would happen if you grew them in a high oxygen tank and supplemented their diet with the hormone.
Maybe get a Mothman that way.
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Not just ignored, but vehemently dismissed as “woke” quoting the fossil fuel lobby almost verbatim. Repeatedly. Over generations and overwhelming scientific consensus.
A majority of us voted for Al Gore, but I'm sure someone will next tell me he wouldn't have made a difference, both sides are the same, blah blah blah.
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Yeah, people were absolutely lied to - insidiously and exhaustively. That necessarily shapes their world views.
Yes, but people also see the truth. The information is there. Some people choose to believe the lies because it's convenient. They don't want to look into it. They don't want to listen to scientists, and instead choose to listen to politicians and companies.
Voters are systematically gerrymandered and disenfranchised. Popular candidates are smeared, removed from ballots, denied access to debates, and outright prosecuted.
Where are the riots? Where were the protests as Republicans red mapped? Why did they stop? Where was the blowback when Florida didn't give felons their right to vote back? Where are the riots when Republicans vote to remove the ability of citizens to add initiatives to the ballot?
What do you say to the 60-80% of the population with no material representation in government?
You don't need a vote to effect meaningful political change. Women couldn't vote. Until they could - through collective action.
Everyone chooses how to react and interface with the world. All the distortions in American democracy didn't materialize overnight.
People formed unions despite being murdered by pinkertons. Just because the system is fighting against us, doesn't absolve us of our responsibilities.
The modern moment is historically overdetermined. It's hubristic to pretend you have any control over it.
Correct my misunderstanding, but this tells me you have given up and think that nothing could have been done unless those with real power suddenly became altruistic in the past 3 decades.
And on that point, we may fundamentally disagree. I have to believe that citizens can effect change individually or collectively despite everything stacked against them. If I admit that the power differential is intractable and hopeless, then our only hope is a sudden wave of noblesse oblige to overcome people's greed, and we are truly fucked. Hubristic or not, I have to believe we have agency.
Yes, but people also see the truth.
People see information weighted by quality of presentation and volume of utterances. "The Truth" is not self-revelatory nor is it self-reinforcing, particularly for a lay person. There are whole philosophical treaties that break this down.
Where are the riots? Where were the protests as Republicans red mapped? Why did they stop? Where was the blowback when Florida didn’t give felons their right to vote back? Where are the riots when Republicans vote to remove the ability of citizens to add initiatives to the ballot?
You have to ask, you haven't bothered to look. We had a Jacksonville man arrested after he tried to run over a pack of protesters in his neighborhood in June. We had a Texas congressional candidate tackled by police in the middle of a legislative session just last week. Over 3,200 students had been arrested on campus in the spring of 2024. The riots in LA have been happening for months.
But the fact that you seem to be willing to deny the existence of ongoing domestic protests - flare ups that have been stretching back decades in this country - sort of illustrates the problem of "the truth of climate change". You've blinded yourself to crowds of people who may well be marching through your own neighborhoods. These are massive crowds of people who get regular news coverage, not obscure 19th century climatologists who go unmentioned save in the fine print of Wikipedia articles.
Correct my misunderstanding, but this tells me you have given up
If I had given up, I wouldn't be blaming random Boomers on the current state of affairs. I don't believe an entire generational cohort is irredeemably stupid.
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At what point on this graph is ecoterrorism justified?
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Gen Z is 1997-2010
How are they just entering voting age?
Perhaps "just entering" was an overstatement.
Wikipedia has the Gen-Z range from 1997-2012, so they're 13-28. This year, about 68% are eligible to vote; something over 50% were eligible to vote in the last presidential election, and one statistic I saw claimed they made up only about 8% of the total vote. They are, however, the biggest generation in history, ever. Given that the birth rates in the US stopped climbing and started falling in 2007, it's conceivable that they may be the biggest generation ever, forever.
In any case, statistically, young people vote at far lower rates than older; 18-29 (GenZ, at the moment) vote around 50%. At around 30 it's 60%, and by 65 it's over 70%.
So, given that some 65% of Gen Z are eligible to vote, and statistically about half of them will at this age bracket, that's only about 35% of Gen Z voting. That number will grow over three next decade and become the dominant number, but right now it's fairly small... hence "just entering voting age."
You're right, my wording wasn't accurate; the meaning was.
Ancillarily, births in the US peaked at 4.3M births in 2007 and have been declining since; they haven't hit 4M again since, and are down to 3.6M in 2025, below 1994 (3.9M) levels.
