Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia

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You may want to quote some more of that bit, bud.
It was a FOILED BOMBING PLOT targeting Jewish Australians.

How is Israel relevant?

But yes, native people always seem to get the shaft, no matter where you are. Again though, not relevant in this thread surely.

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A Nazi/Hitler salut was always illegal in Germany after WW 2 and courts figured it out what counts as a nazi salute and what not (it often comes down to context i guess).

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Nazis aren't "people you disagree with". They're anti-social violence-worshippers, and in this Australian context, terrorists grooming children. The main Australian neo-Nazi group literally had leadership get caught applying for a job in disability services when they said they only wanted to work cases for young boys[1]. ASIO have emphasised the decreasing age of NSNs membership. Their strategy, like many neo-Nazi orgs, is to indoctrinate and recruit disaffected and alienated teenagers.

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Nonsense.

Courts are good at figuring out what constitutes an illegal action. It's what they're intended to do and what they have been doing since the dawn of civilisation.

I don't really care what Nazis think is "cool".

It's addressing the underlying problem by communicating the seriousness of the threat of fascism to everyone.

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I generally don't do "slippery slope" arguments, and I also dislike invoking the "paradox of tolerance", but I will say that I think the messaging here is important.

To me, it's not "just a gesture". It's a very clear and intentional demonstration of ideological alignment, and it's an ideology of hate and intolerance.

I'm absolutely ok with expressing, as a society, that we will not accept this ideology amongst us. If they want to scuttle around through the cracks like cockroaches then so be it.

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Someone performing a Nazi salute is already a Nazi.

Making the gesture illegal is a clear communication to all Australians that we will not tolerate this ideology.

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Alain de Botton did some really good philosophy videos, maybe for the BBC.
Recommended.

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I feel like this copypasta is mandatory here:

(transcribed from a series of tweets) - @iamragesparkle

I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out."

And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them."

And i was like, ohok and he continues.

"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people."

And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.

I first saw this on reddit

Also this idiot performing a nazi salute outside court after just being sentenced, got busted. What a nimrod.

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This isn't about people being just openly Nazi but for any "hate-related offense". If you want to tackle any such thing you might need to look into the root causes of the issues and try to fix those, including tackling concerns from the people who become hateful, such as living conditions, education, that sort of stuff. So much like with criminality. That's a lot more work than just the "tough on crime" approach of throwing everyone into jail for a year, minimum, and hoping that will work (or rather trying to show to your voters that you're doing something).

Can you force them to shut the fuck up with their hateful Nazi sit if they want to be a part of society? I think this will sure help.

It will be the same as anywhere that already has this sort of laws, people will be less obvious about it while the same hate and message is out there. I don't think this will affect anything that giving tougher fines wouldn't and it would cause more negatives than that does. You could even have stricter punishments for repeat offenders and do fines as day fines. But prison for a year for any such offense? The scale seems off, especially when you consider that the maximum for terrorism related stuff is six years.

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It was a joke, chill bro.

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Knowing my luck, I'd get 12 months for having my arm at an unfavourable angle while giving directions.

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I hope you're right but I'm less optimistic about courts.

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Then they become martyrs for their group.

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Remember that Hersant idiot from a few months back did the salute outside a courthouse.

He was found guilty, judge gave no fucks: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-08/vic-nazi-salute-jacob-hersant-court/104443118

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Sorry what rights don't Aboriginals have ?

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"Less obvious" means fewer recruits. I'm not sure why you think being less obvious is just as effective as being overt.

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“No charges to be laid over alleged Nazi salute made by officer at Victoria Police academy”

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/104796744

Cops get to be a little Nazi as a treat.

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Don't import this "both sides" bullshit just because you see everyone saying that about the US.

Criticising governments is fine, but Albo's government is a polar opposite to LNP.

Any politician needs to function within our capitalist society. If you don't like that, have a revolution and return us all to agrarian communism. In the mean time the PM needs to keep corporate Australia ticking over. That said, there's a reason Labor has such deep ties to Australia's unions. Labor has very consistently improved wages and terms for employees, while LNP wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

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Judges could have biases of their own whether they realise it or not.

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"Recruits"? The concern isn't people joining something, it's them agreeing with the message. Less obvious approach already works just fine (probably even better than direct approach) all over the world in selling the message and the hate, so if you think this mandatory year of jail will have much of an effect on that, I have a few other "tough on crime" approaches to sell to you. Might even declare War on Hate in style of War on Drugs.

As usual, people want tough and immediate measures, forgetting about a longer term approach and working to tackle the causes of why this messaging sells so well.

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Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia