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  3. German intelligence warns Putin preparing Nato assault by end of decade

German intelligence warns Putin preparing Nato assault by end of decade

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Europe
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  • J [email protected]

    America is doing just fine, it's just the USA portion of it that is troubled

    noughtnaut@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
    noughtnaut@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    I m delighted by your comment.

    But also, isn't the USA portion one of the only two countries over there that are (currently) a member of NATO?

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • S [email protected]

      Yeah, imagine invoking article 5 just over a handful of buildings....

      gradually_adjusting@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
      gradually_adjusting@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      Aaahaha heh hmm ahem err yes

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • gradually_adjusting@lemmy.worldG [email protected]

        If Russia gets ambiguously belligerent with a small NATO ally (someplace like Lithuania) and everyone's suddenly saying "we have to go to war over THAT?" and American corporate media starts framing the use of article 5 as escalatory, that's your cue that phase 1 is complete.

        B This user is from outside of this forum
        B This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        This is specifically why France developed their nuclear arsenal under De Gaulle.

        De Gaulle believed that the Americans could not be trusted to defend Europe, he was afraid that if the Russians would attack Europe with nuclear weapons the US would not defend us.

        T 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • gradually_adjusting@lemmy.worldG [email protected]

          If Russia gets ambiguously belligerent with a small NATO ally (someplace like Lithuania) and everyone's suddenly saying "we have to go to war over THAT?" and American corporate media starts framing the use of article 5 as escalatory, that's your cue that phase 1 is complete.

          R This user is from outside of this forum
          R This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          America is going to be balls deep in greenland and europe will not go to war over THAT.

          ? T 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • R [email protected]

            Russia can't even take over Ukraine and they'll take on entire NATO? Even if we exclude USA from it there is just no chance. Only if dumbass Trump collaborates with Russia to attack NATO together. That would be WW3 then...

            kissaki@feddit.orgK This user is from outside of this forum
            kissaki@feddit.orgK This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            They're already quite successful in hybrid warfare against NATO and EU.

            Probing NATO's security guarantees doesn't mean taking it on fully. It means testing out how far you can go without them fully committing with military.

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            • J [email protected]

              America is doing just fine, it's just the USA portion of it that is troubled

              W This user is from outside of this forum
              W This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Lol I live here and I gotta say, Id sign off on us being renamed to The States of America, we are the most not united thing to ever exist.

              a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA anzo@programming.devA 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • B [email protected]

                This is specifically why France developed their nuclear arsenal under De Gaulle.

                De Gaulle believed that the Americans could not be trusted to defend Europe, he was afraid that if the Russians would attack Europe with nuclear weapons the US would not defend us.

                T This user is from outside of this forum
                T This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                And oh how right he was.

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                • gradually_adjusting@lemmy.worldG [email protected]

                  If Russia gets ambiguously belligerent with a small NATO ally (someplace like Lithuania) and everyone's suddenly saying "we have to go to war over THAT?" and American corporate media starts framing the use of article 5 as escalatory, that's your cue that phase 1 is complete.

                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Salami slicing all the way to London.

                  https://youtu.be/QgkUVIj3KWY

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                  • T [email protected]

                    America is already out of the question and I think most politicians in Europe are finally seeing that. But the problem runs much deeper still. With the US out of the picture, will Madrid declare war on Russia if they send little green men to a border village in Latvia?

                    C This user is from outside of this forum
                    C This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Most politicians are seeing that now but I wonder how many of them will remember these terrifying developments as soon as another guy sits in the white house. They were way too eager to cozy up to Biden after the first 4 terrible years of Trumpism. We shouldn‘ve learned our lesson then and we should learn our lesson now. Once and for all.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • T [email protected]

                      There’s this old saying that goes something like: "The European Airforce could beat Russia any day of the week - as long as they don’t have to do it the next week as well."

                      Meaning, the most pressing problem are our ammunition stockpiles. If you research that you’ll quickly see how bad the situation is in the EU currently. The Bundeswehr could, according to top generals, not stay in a fight for more than one or two weeks before running out of artillery shells, missiles and bombs.

                      Then there’s also the issue of lacking infrastructure, the absence of a unified command structure in Europe and with the withdrawal of the US, also a lack of strategic capabilities (awacs, satellite data, military intelligence, air tankers, heavy lift helicopters, …).

                      T This user is from outside of this forum
                      T This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      The Bundeswehr could, according to top generals, not stay in a fight for more than one or two weeks before running out of artillery shells, missiles and bombs.

                      You should read these claims with the same amount of nuance you use on claims like "Russia runs out of tanks/missiles/shells".

                      What they mean is "we can sustain a full-on, large scale offensive at optimal supply for two weeks, before we need to scale to a lower operational pace and stockpile material for our individual operations."

                      No military ever has enough, Russia "ran out" a few days into their offense, and yet they've been fighting for years.

                      the absence of a unified command structure in Europe

                      Eh, NATO high command exists just fine. Sure, it would be headed by the 2nd in command, but it works.

                      also a lack of strategic capabilities (awacs, satellite data, military intelligence, air tankers, heavy lift helicopters, …).

                      Yeah, Europe has a terrifying lack of enablers, but the reason for that is, apart from intelligence, is that European militaries aren't prepared for, or want to be prepared for, large scale offensive power projection away from home.

                      You can drive a truck from Gibraltar to Talin in Estonia in 48 hours. A train takes slightly longer, though I imagine clearing the railways is a lot easier under martial law.

                      Europe only has one good wing of tanker/transport planes, but we have hundreds and hundreds of airfields, and you don't need much mid-air refueling in a defensive war where everyone has capital cities in easy jet range.

                      The lack of airborne radar and satellites is MUCH worse for Europe than any other enablers.

                      H T 2 Replies Last reply
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                      • Z [email protected]
                        This post did not contain any content.
                        richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                        richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        They barely could handle a war with small Ukraine, a full scale war with NATO is a no-go; and I'm quite certain Putin won't live that long

                        J L halcyon@discuss.tchncs.deH E M 5 Replies Last reply
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                        • richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR [email protected]

                          They barely could handle a war with small Ukraine, a full scale war with NATO is a no-go; and I'm quite certain Putin won't live that long

                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                          J This user is from outside of this forum
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                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          But with Trump on his side, he might make some progress.

                          richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • J [email protected]

                            But with Trump on his side, he might make some progress.

                            richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                            richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Trump might be an idiot, but he is not so much of an idiot to take on the entirety of Europe, who, likely when this happens will have new allies besides the US

                            J ? E digestive_biscuit@feddit.ukD A 9 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR [email protected]

                              Trump might be an idiot, but he is not so much of an idiot to take on the entirety of Europe, who, likely when this happens will have new allies besides the US

                              J This user is from outside of this forum
                              J This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Would he be doing that if he attempts to take Greenland?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • T [email protected]

                                The Bundeswehr could, according to top generals, not stay in a fight for more than one or two weeks before running out of artillery shells, missiles and bombs.

                                You should read these claims with the same amount of nuance you use on claims like "Russia runs out of tanks/missiles/shells".

                                What they mean is "we can sustain a full-on, large scale offensive at optimal supply for two weeks, before we need to scale to a lower operational pace and stockpile material for our individual operations."

                                No military ever has enough, Russia "ran out" a few days into their offense, and yet they've been fighting for years.

                                the absence of a unified command structure in Europe

                                Eh, NATO high command exists just fine. Sure, it would be headed by the 2nd in command, but it works.

                                also a lack of strategic capabilities (awacs, satellite data, military intelligence, air tankers, heavy lift helicopters, …).

                                Yeah, Europe has a terrifying lack of enablers, but the reason for that is, apart from intelligence, is that European militaries aren't prepared for, or want to be prepared for, large scale offensive power projection away from home.

                                You can drive a truck from Gibraltar to Talin in Estonia in 48 hours. A train takes slightly longer, though I imagine clearing the railways is a lot easier under martial law.

                                Europe only has one good wing of tanker/transport planes, but we have hundreds and hundreds of airfields, and you don't need much mid-air refueling in a defensive war where everyone has capital cities in easy jet range.

                                The lack of airborne radar and satellites is MUCH worse for Europe than any other enablers.

                                H This user is from outside of this forum
                                H This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Using NATO infrastructure would presumably invite US to the table, which is probably not desirable, even today.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR [email protected]

                                  Trump might be an idiot, but he is not so much of an idiot to take on the entirety of Europe, who, likely when this happens will have new allies besides the US

                                  ? Offline
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  I don't know... These last few years have led me to never underestimate stupidity. Not that I think this would happen, because I don't think Americans would allow that.

                                  samus12345@lemm.eeS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • Z [email protected]
                                    This post did not contain any content.
                                    I This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    To me this sound like propaganda to justify military spending. Stockpiling weapons benefits authoritarian governments and rich people.

                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

                                    The numbers speak for themself.

                                    K 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • richardisaguy@lemmy.worldR [email protected]

                                      Trump might be an idiot, but he is not so much of an idiot to take on the entirety of Europe, who, likely when this happens will have new allies besides the US

                                      E This user is from outside of this forum
                                      E This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      I don't think you understand that trump is not only dumb he is also a russian asset.
                                      Sure actual evidence is shaky but when there is someone squatting with their pants down, only an completely insane person would claim they are in the process of laying chicken eggs.

                                      D 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • S [email protected]

                                        I really hope our politicians are not THAT dumb..... Hope is what we have

                                        E This user is from outside of this forum
                                        E This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        Instead of hanging trump for treason of jan 6, you elected him into office after he got charged with a felony AND legal system agreed president can do whatever illegal shit they want up to and beyond dictatorship.
                                        Yeah, they are that fucking dumb.

                                        S 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • T [email protected]

                                          i mean, don't we all just assume this now?

                                          i don't mean to make light of the news, but it's clear as day: america isn't america any more.

                                          donantoniomagino@feddit.nlD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          donantoniomagino@feddit.nlD This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          America has always been an aggressive state - the only thing that has changed are the targets. But this is perfectly „American”.

                                          T 1 Reply Last reply
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