Are people in the US aware that they are now definitely a rogue state, or is this fact simply covered up by the usual patriotism?
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It wasn’t even originally an American thing, it’s from the UK.
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A superpower by definition cannot really be a rogue state. A "rogue state" is a political label applied by dominant powers to states that defy the international order. For example Iran or North Korea are considered rogue states because they defy the international order. What is "the international order"?
Well, it's the combination post-WW2 institutions created by none other than the US. The UN, IMF, NATO, etc. They set the norms of "legitimate" behavior. When the US participates in military interventions, economic sanctions, and other aggressive actions it's framed as upholding "rules-based order" whereas identical actions by weaker states get them condemned with the label as "rogue states".
To call the US a rogue state is to misunderstand power. Hegemony is the ability to define reality, not just defy it. In this way, the US has always been a rogue state in the sense that it does whatever it wants regardless of the international norms. I mean, just look at the mid 1900s and its actions in Latin America. It was involved in about a dozen states toppling governments and supporting military dictatorships- including sponsoring the genocide of natives in Guatemala.
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A superpower by definition cannot really be a rogue state. A "rogue state" is a political label applied by dominant powers to states that defy the international order. For example Iran or North Korea are considered rogue states because they defy the international order. What is "the international order"?
Well, it's the combination post-WW2 institutions created by none other than the US. The UN, IMF, NATO, etc. They set the norms of "legitimate" behavior. When the US participates in military interventions, economic sanctions, and other aggressive actions it's framed as upholding "rules-based order" whereas identical actions by weaker states get them condemned with the label as "rogue states".
To call the US a rogue state is to misunderstand power. Hegemony is the ability to define reality, not just defy it. In this way, the US has always been a rogue state in the sense that it does whatever it wants regardless of the international norms. I mean, just look at the mid 1900s and its actions in Latin America. It was involved in about a dozen states toppling governments and supporting military dictatorships- including sponsoring the genocide of natives in Guatemala.
Yes, that's true. I'm more concerned with whether US citizens, whose past administrations more or less invented the term, can now recognize for themselves that they are no longer on the side of the "good guys" with this administration at all, but are now the "terrorists" themselves - the very thing that past US administrations denounced (entirely speciously, of course).
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It wasn’t even originally an American thing, it’s from the UK.
Wait, is it just called "Idol" there?
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I had a friend that that looked like they were offended when they found out Australian Idol was a thing and it wasn't just in America.
Yep. The concept that there's a symmetry between countries is a few degrees of separation away from many Americans, I guess. It's not weirder to have an Australian Idol than an American one. I've also had conversation where they assume other countries are patriotic for America. Like, even in the first world we all sit around wishing we were American.
Famously, many (most?) of them can't even identify the continents on a map. I'd be interested to see Chinese doing it, I've heard they're on the same level of insularity, being another massive superpower.
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Yes, that's true. I'm more concerned with whether US citizens, whose past administrations more or less invented the term, can now recognize for themselves that they are no longer on the side of the "good guys" with this administration at all, but are now the "terrorists" themselves - the very thing that past US administrations denounced (entirely speciously, of course).
Edit 2: Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying this because I believe that Europe, for example, would be much better - I’m saying it because I’m from Germany and we have the history that you all know. It’s not too late to put a stop to Trump and his Nazi colleagues, but it will take civil resistance. If there is no vehement resistance, I fear that history will repeat itself. Nobody in their right mind can want that.
You say this while both your country and the US are supporting the genocide of palestinians with barely any civil resistance other than some toothless protests.
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Wait, is it just called "Idol" there?
Pop Idol.
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As is typical for the US, 1/3 are deeply aware, 1/3 are in full "patriotic" support, and 1/3 are too distracted by the latest TikTok dance to notice.
I don't think that applies here. 1/3 in each group is fair for domestic matters. But, OP is asking about perceptions of the US by people in other countries.
In that case, even the 1/3 that is opposed to what's happening will contain a lot of people with no idea how the rest of the world sees the US. For example, of the 1/3 of Americans who deeply oppose what's happening, what fraction do you think actually read Le Monde or Deutsche Welle, or are even aware that they have an English-language service?
And, the 1/3 that is fully supportive of what's happening will contain a lot of people who think that this is improving how the rest of the world sees the US. Sure, some will be aware and will still be defiant in the face of how the rest of the world is reacting. But, others will be watching Fox News or Newsmax and will hear propaganda that convinces them that the rest of the world admires and respects the US more than ever for taking a decisive stand against the deep state.
So, as with anything involving something happening outside the US, I'd guess more than 50% of Americans have no idea what the rest of the world is thinking.
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I see a lot of people starting gardens or looking to getting chickens to be as self sufficient as they can.
Many are holding off on large purchases to save in case "something happens". People around me who were never interested in firearms and in fact were generally opposed to them are starting to arm themselves at a rapid pace.Interesting, but not surprising that this doesn't really answer the question. The question was about whether Americans were aware of how the US was perceived outside its borders.
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It largely depends on the location. For example, in the PNW, especially Western Washington and Oregon, people are very aware of that fact. Many around here are arming, protesting, and becoming more and more self sufficient.
For their part, the Washington State government has sued the Trump administration multiple times, and for now, has blocked some of the executive orders in federal court. Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he's more than willing to ignore.
Meanwhile in states like Utah (where some of my family lives), they still have their heads in the sand, and don't seem to be bothered. Not to generalize, because some people there are aware, but they're outnumbered by the ignorant public there. Many people there who are aware are either trapped due to financial reasons or are actively trying to leave for blue states.
I have seen that some GOP voters are starting to feel the financial burn, but most of them still try to blame it on Biden.
This doesn't seem to be actually answering the question. The question was about how the US was perceived by other countries, not how Americans perceive their own government.
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The fascists own all the media organizations. The population has been taught systematically since birth to have unyielding blind faith in the institutions of the state. Many won't understand that anything unusual is happening until they're hungry and cold, burying empty caskets for their drafted children sent to die in fascist wars of conquests.
This is the closest anybody in the thread has actually come to answering the question. The full answer is that Americans almost never consult non-American news sources, so of course they're not aware of how they're perceived in the rest of the world.
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Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I've seen two classes:
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Those in denial and ignorant in general (don't really follow the news), who don't believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
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Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like "oh so when the Democrats do it it's okay, but now the Trump is doing it it's wrong??? You fucking communist!"
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It's the only explanation I have. These aren't random people I don't know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don't see a way to help them that doesn't involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it's going to make me resent them, and I don't want that.
Note, that this isn't actually the question. It's not whether Americans are aware of what's happening, it's about whether Americans are aware of how the rest of the world perceives the US.
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Leftists, of course. Liberals will continue to be in denial for the foreseeable future. Conservatives just dgaf.
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Some of us are aware. We tend to also be the ones who know this only ends in some kind of revolution. No dictator has even chosen to give up power.
No dictator has even chosen to give up power.
Taiwan's did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taiwan_(1945–present)
It was actually neat. The "hybrid" between dictatorial state funding and a democratic business environment all but established TSMC.
But, uh, we don't talk about that here I guess.
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Americans for the most part are only dimly aware there's an outside world in the first place.
It figures it takes someone calling themselves "CanadaPlus" to actually see the actual question and answer it.
Everyone else is answering about how aware Americans are about what's happening, but the question was about whether Americans were aware of how the world perceived the US. The answer, of course, is "no, Americans have no idea because Americans consume almost no non-American media".
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Oh, we fucking know.
Doubt it.
What non-American news sources do you read? Do you really think that more than 50% of the US actually consults non-American news sources?
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It figures it takes someone calling themselves "CanadaPlus" to actually see the actual question and answer it.
Everyone else is answering about how aware Americans are about what's happening, but the question was about whether Americans were aware of how the world perceived the US. The answer, of course, is "no, Americans have no idea because Americans consume almost no non-American media".
This kind of question coming up a lot is why I chose the name, haha.
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Most Americans don't think about other countries enough to really grasp what you mean by rogue state
You're one of the few people who actually understood the question. As a result, you're one of the few who actually got the right answer.
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I’ve been saying this is inevitable since at least 2004. I’ve been called every name you can pretty much call someone.
I hate being right it fucking sucks.
Saying what is inevitable? That other countries will consider the US a rogue state?
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We're inundated with propaganda. Our media is state run. All for-profit media is state run.
