male voters
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but you suddenly care NOW? nope you are a fake.
Again, netanyahu massively ramped up the genocide, to the point where no one could deny it in good faith, and EVEN THEN democrats wouldn't stop selling him weapons.
In this conversation, you've been a lot angrier at people who joined the opposition to genocide than you have been about the genocide itself.
no one could deny it in good faith? They couldn't for 70 years. You are all only now crying about it because you hate democrats. Do you think palestinians suddenly think you are on their side? No. you are all fake. Just like trumps hair, just like trumps make up, fake up from the waist down. "OH NO GENOCIDE! the same one thats been happening for decades I suddenly care about it, now that i hate biden and obama!"
get outta here with your 'concern'
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So there should be a socialist party no?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yes, ideally, but the US system is completely rigged in a million different ways to make the emergence of a meaningful 3rd party almost impossible.
The way we award seats, first past the post, is horrendously flawed, and means that if every specifically defined area just barely has a majority... the net effect is a government that is way, way out of sync with what the broader population actually wants.
And this is all rigged by regularly and precisely redrawing all those specific geographic areas to make it so they are either clearly gonna be Rep or Dem, or 51-49 split that looks 'reasonably fair' on paper, but in practice, almost always goes to that 51.
...
Ironically, if Musk goes through with making his own third party... he, the literal richest man in the world, is basically the only person that could possibly pull that off.
That is how huge of a role money plays in US politics.
Takes the richest man in the world to be even maybe potentially able to counteract all the rest of the combined lobbying money of other corporate lobbyists... and thats assuming he was able to basically shut the fuck up and let at least strategically competent people run the whole show.
Going by the probably actually legit poll Elon commissioned to be run about possible support for an Elon party, here are the numbers I ended up with:
(will update in a moment, gotta go find my old post)
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Ok, heres the full poll:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R4pZVo0ZnrQyElZQzdNtt7CQ1zwTypuS/view
Here's some rough, but reasonable math to extrapolate.
If you say half of the 'somewhat likely's actually go for it, then you get this:
Republicans who join Elon Party: 34.25%
Independents who join Elon Party: 28.25%
Democrats who join Elon Party: 13.75%
...
There are more Dem voters than Republicans.
But there are also more independents than either.
Roughly 32% Reps, 33% Dems, 35% Indp.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/the-partisanship-and-ideology-of-american-voters/
So, throw that in with those previous calcs, and you end up with:
Reps: ~21%
Dems: ~28.5%
Elons: ~25.5%
Indps: ~25%
or, normalized to remove remaining Indps:
Reps: 28%, Dems: 38%, Elons: 34%.
...
So... theoretically, the Dems are still the largest, Elon is now second behind them, and the Reps are now a third party, less popular than having no solid political affiliation.
So if Elon actually goes through with this, I think you end up with a good number of corpo Dems leaving the Dems, so the Dems now have an easier time shifting to the left.
The Reps lose 1/3 of their voters, and basically just become a cult of idiot racist nazis, paleocons, theocrats, MAGA nutjobs.
Elon party ... basically becomes the 'centrist'/libertarian/ancap/corpo party.
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who did the ACA? who came up with that plan? Lets hear it finally
Mit Romney?
Although technically when it got past Dem moderates it was a more conservative version of Romney's plan...
Do people still not know that in 2025?
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/23/mitt-romney-admits-romneycare-had-to-precede-obamacare.html
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-mitt-romney-saved-obamacare-msna626361
https://www.politifact.com/article/2012/mar/20/romneycare-and-obamacare-can-you-tell-difference/
I'm constantly surprised how people can be so opinionated, but never curious enough to learn....
Like, that's my whole point
Obama sold us "fixing healthcare"
And we literally ended up with a more conservative version of the Republican plan. Because moderate Dems sided with Republicans.
Were you agreeing wit me and I just "whooshed"?
Mit Romney?
yep, and guess who suddenly opposed it once it was put forward? Who's party opposed it? who is trying to get rid of it?
Who called it "obama-care" ? and why wasnt it "romney Care?" I am also surprised at how people who are seemingly smart can watch a political party do a 180 degree turn on their own designs just to obstruct. and then literally say their obstruction is the fault of the opposition. Its like watching a child being told to step on a lego and then the parent tells them its not their fault.
Like. Little. Babies. -
You honestly don't get?
Like. This isn't a bit you're doing, you legitimately don't understand?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Understand what? That we're supposed to accept the smears of people like Jeffries and Gilibrand as "endorsements" just because centrists want to maintain the ridiculous fiction that party leadership doesn't work against progressives?
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Mit Romney?
yep, and guess who suddenly opposed it once it was put forward? Who's party opposed it? who is trying to get rid of it?
Who called it "obama-care" ? and why wasnt it "romney Care?" I am also surprised at how people who are seemingly smart can watch a political party do a 180 degree turn on their own designs just to obstruct. and then literally say their obstruction is the fault of the opposition. Its like watching a child being told to step on a lego and then the parent tells them its not their fault.
Like. Little. Babies.Right ...
So what about the elected Democrats who said Romenys plan had to become more conservative for them to vote for it?
Everyone on the correct side has a D by their name, you seem to get that...
You just don't understand that everyone with a D by their isn't on the correct side
Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square
I hope that got thru to you, but I'll never know
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"Everything I don't like is misinformation. Don't ask questions."
I mean, you've spent this entire conversation conveniently ignoring the actions of the democratic party against progressives.
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no one could deny it in good faith? They couldn't for 70 years. You are all only now crying about it because you hate democrats. Do you think palestinians suddenly think you are on their side? No. you are all fake. Just like trumps hair, just like trumps make up, fake up from the waist down. "OH NO GENOCIDE! the same one thats been happening for decades I suddenly care about it, now that i hate biden and obama!"
get outta here with your 'concern'
Well, one of us wanted biden to stop selling weapons for the genocide you've done nothing but equivocate in favor of.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that I hate obama.
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I'm fucking trans, stop knee-jerking. I'm absolutely mocking liberalism because they're center right at best and absolutely complicit in the rise of fascism.
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Theres no anti-gay sentiment, they are mocking liberal pinkwashing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]not a dude, but thanks
edit: thanks for the edit
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Understand what? That we're supposed to accept the smears of people like Jeffries and Gilibrand as "endorsements" just because centrists want to maintain the ridiculous fiction that party leadership doesn't work against progressives?
I only saw your comment because I signed in after the page loaded.
So I'll go ahead and answer your question:
That the people currently smearing Mamdaninarent "the party" they're the ones whose wing just got the boot from the DNC. That's why they created project 29, they're desperate for Dems to focus on something they control, and they don't control the DNC anymore.
The way the DNC (the party) is structured, is the Chair has 100% control and zero accountability.
In February Ken Martin was seated chair.
Here's what "the party" is saying about Mamdani:
Amna Nawaz:
What do you take away from Zohran Mamdani's New York City mayoral Democratic primary win? Are there lessons there for the party or the races?
Ken Martin:
Well, first, it was a brilliant campaign. And there's a lot of lessons.
One is, he campaigned for something. And this is a critical piece. We can't just be in a perpetual state of resisting Donald Trump. Of course, we have to resist Donald Trump. There's no doubt about it for all the reasons we just talked about. But we also have to give people a sense of what we're for, what the Democratic Party is fighting for, and what we would do if they put us back in power.
And that's really critical. And I think that's one of the lessons from Mamdani's campaign, is that he focused on affordability. He focused on a message that was resonant with voters, and he campaigned for something, not against other people or against other things. He campaigned on a vision of how he was going to make New York City a better place to live.
I think that's one of the lessons. The other lessons, of course, is the tactics he used to get his message out, both a very aggressive in-person campaigning, meeting voters where they're at, and then also in those digital spaces, using very creative messaging to cut through the noise and to get to voters in an inexpensive but authentic way.
There's a lot to learn from that campaign, and I'm excited to learn more.
For now at least, the party is back on the side of the people.
And that's not even getting into the other stuff he's doing. You won't hear it on MSM, because MSM is owned by billionaires. They'd rather have a third trump term than a progressive.
Don't fall for their propaganda that today's DNC has anything to do with the DNC from 2024 and earlier.
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Theres no anti-gay sentiment, they are mocking liberal pinkwashing.
The people: Can we have some help?
Republicans: No.
Democrats: No. #blm #lgbt
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If you want to win when the economy is in recession, you have to make up the difference. FDR didnt get elected on "do nothing and hope the economy deigns to bless the people with jobs"
Which Republicans know, which is why they block everything every Democrat tries to do. Biden tried numerous things which were halted by our broken Senate
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Which Republicans know, which is why they block everything every Democrat tries to do. Biden tried numerous things which were halted by our broken Senate
Convenient excuse. If dems genuinely wanted these things, they could include it in bills that can't be filibustered, use executive orders or just help people and let the SCOTUS complain about it later.
We know they know how, because we see both republicans and dems do it, but only to make things worse for us or make sure Israel keeps getting bombs when congress is broken.
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I mean, you've spent this entire conversation conveniently ignoring the actions of the democratic party against progressives.
Which had zero impact since Bernie lost by millions both times.
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wrote last edited by [email protected]
It's time to reform the government.
Edit: and people need to seriously consider what that looks like. Especially once the smoke clears
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even worse, they're all conservative consultants.
Nervous Lincoln Project noises
Seriously, what kind of absolute schlubs turn to Ted Cruz's campaign manager to win liberal votes?
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Dems don't want to win every election because that would break the scam.
Send in the republicans to loot our money and then send in the dems to fix everything up enough to where they can loot again.
I keep saying this but it feels like the Dems are a Russia-style controlled opposition party.
Doesn't mean 100% of them are garbage, but the leadership sure does seem like it hates the idea of successful opposition
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What exactly is it you suggest they do about Bernie’s primary loss?
Stop. Ratfucking. Progressives.
Stop holding democratic primaries and just pick their own candidate who scores well in general polls?
As opposed to not holding primaries and picking a surefire loser like they did last year?
They need to stop fucking over progressives
But also 24 was stolen
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You know, if you're holding a big GOTV drive in Houston and you want to bring their home town girl in to sing a few bars as part of a state convention or mobilizing event, I wouldn't begrudge them that.
But Beyonce showed up at a big Harris event and didn't perform any music. Literally paid to wave at the crowd and not do the thing for which you're famous.
Lmao wut? Wasn't the campaign manager literally just someone's brother, that would explain so much
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It's time to reform the government.
Edit: and people need to seriously consider what that looks like. Especially once the smoke clears
Changing the voting system is the first step.
A lot of smart people have looked at this problem. With years of study, lots of math, and some real world testing, the best option for a replacement is STAR.
