Argentina's president bans gender-affirming care for people under age 18

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You're not a bad guy, but this is kind of a bad faith argument, saying that a 14yo not being comfortable with their gender is just a phase they'll grow out of (like any other stupid kid / teenager phase). Does it happen? sure, of course it does. But it's not 'just a phase' for the VAST majority of trans pre adults. If you're scared that someone will change their mind and keep them from doing anything until 18, then they get hit with full wrong gender puberty and change their bodies in ways they can't undo. Most of the older trans women I know transitioned in adulthood, and it sucks to say but they still sound like a dude talking. They hate it. They wish so bad they could have been allowed to do this as early as possible. They knew exactly what was going on, but had to wait. It's up to parents to know their kids and say are you sure? are you SURE? REALLY? yeah? ok cool let's do this then. Why make them suffer longer?

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I'm not a doctor, so I don't.

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Are you actively having a stroke? You were pretty politely informed and corrected and nowhere in the above responses were you attacked in anything but the most mild and tame interpretation of the word.

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Is giving a teenage boy a bigger dick gender affirming care, and therefore essential medical care? What about a girl who's flat chested wanting bigger boobs? I know it's weird to ask and I do feel kinda gross but yeah. Is that too far? What about an athlete who wants to take steroids cause it would help them achieve their ideal body?

If my grandma had wheels?

None of these are mostly reversible treatments with negligible long term impacts that are common with trans minors.

None of thee are also connected to issues that cause intense mental health issues, including suicidal ideation AND can be treated by your proposed suggestions.

You're comparing completely incomparable situations that look similar at face value without thinking about them for just a minute.

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Cis people don't kill themselves over body issues? Only trans people can be fucked up mentally?

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Ok, but where do you draw the line? Is it ok to treat non trans kids for gender affirming care? How far do you let it go?

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Then when I brought up how I also would have liked some gender affirming care when younger

You mean after you goy angry at me, you edited your earlier comment to justify getting angry at me for quoting facts, as if I had actually made a personal slight when you hadn't mentioned your age, gender, sex or health before my first reply.

"I was talking about hormone blockers"

You said "but actual gender affirming care should be left to when you can have a drink over it".

So that sentence would include gender affirming care for cis males (which you hadn't even identified as when I wrote those replies), and the gender affirming care they receive is getting moobs removed.

You wrote like 70% more text to your original comment. Making some crazy strawman about how you should have been allowed to use as much testosterone as you wanted to, because you pretend that's what gender affirming care is.

Puberty blockers are safe and reversible and we have lots of data to back that up.

I'm asking you whether you think teenage boys who may have issues with gynecomastia should be able to have them removed, or would it be somehow morally wrong? Should we make those boys go through their teenage years suffering from something they know they don't like, so that they can decide about it when they're "old enough to be sure"?

I have not attacked you once. I said "get off your high horse". I don't think that's too inflammatory, tbh.

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I made those edits immediately after posting my argument. Before responding to you. Sorry. I thought you read the whole argument.

So then when I go to immediately read about how my previous body issues are invalid cause there's more fat boys then trans people kinda hurt.

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Your argument fails to take into account that any person seeking to change their gender will not get any gender afferming treatment from medical professionsals, without a lot of therapy and physiological assessment. These kids just go up to their parents and say "I want boobs" or "I want a penis" and mom calls up the family doc to schedule the appointment.

Your whole argument hinges of this conservative boogeyman thinking that any kid can just walk up to their lib parents and magic up a full gender reassignment surgery. And your example of girl asking her parents for bigger boobs would probably be denied by any reputable cosmetic surgeon.

Let's be real: that type of total transition medical care is astronomically expensive and heavily gated by the professional medical community/industry. So how 'bout we leave those decisions to these kids, their families, and the qualified medical professionals?

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I made those edits immediately after posting my argument. Before responding to you. Sorry. I thought you read the whole argument.

The "argument" which wasn't there when I replied to it? And how... exactly? If you post a comment, and then start editing it, during the time you are editing it, people can click "reply" and start replying to the unedited comment. Which is why generally you should not go back and add paragraphs of stuff after you posted a comment.

You've edited it several times and no-one can know which edits you did when.

You pretended like I was calling you fat when I pointed out that most gender affirming care is for cis males with gynecomastia (which usually — but not necessarily always — correlates with obesity), despite me not having any idea of your sex or size.

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Posting like this just makes you seem dishonest.

If you really wanna talk about this drop me a discord handle in dms, I don't feel like typing out long form forum messages.

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Non-trans kids who want extreme changes to their body go to the same doctor that trans kids do: a psychotherapist and/or psychiatrist.

No one just getting any of your example body mods without serious psychological evaluation, even adults.

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Nah, nobody here has been talking about psycotherapist. If that was all it was, everything would be cool. This is about body modifications. Which no kid should be doing. Leave it till 18

Talk to therapists all you want

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None of thee are also connected to issues that cause intense mental health issues, including suicidal ideation AND can be treated by your proposed suggestions.

This isn't leading to CIS people not having intense mental problems that can potentially be changed through body modifications? That only people who are trans want to kill themselves because of the body they were born with?

Everyone has problems mentally. And I'm truly sorry trans people haven't been helped in the past. But I honestly think and body modifications, be it through surgery or hormones or anything else, should be held off until we as a society agree children are adults. Else we might as well allow kids to smoke, drink, take steroids, or do anything that will let them have the "ideal" body.

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And no one is getting that kind of body modifications without talking to one first. Your ignorance of the medical community is on full display.

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I made those edits immediately. But even so at no point in my original argument did I talk about surgeries. You immediately went into moobs and fat boys.

Also, you didn't know my sex after saying when I was younger I wanted bigger muscles, a foot of height, and a massive dick? Then you really either have read anything of just dotn care to comprehend.

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Ok? And your point is?

The fact that children are getting body modigicatiks after talking is still the problem.

It sucks people are born into the wrong body. I wish it didn't happen. But it does.

And if you start letting one group of kids start making body modifications, where do you draw the line of too much? Why would it be fair for a group to completely change gender but not for another to add more modifications the help theirs.

And this whole thread started by Argentina blocking those life altering changes. They didn't stop therepy or anything, atleast not from what I've seen. The article was super short and Google results didn't lead to much.

If they did then I'm sorry for the previous ignorance. But my original argument said dress and act a certain way all you want. And I'll add we need to crack down on people bullying those that want to transition. I just don't think the answer is let the child start transitioning. And it sucks for those that truly do know early that they should be yhe other gender.

But like, what about short people that know if they were taller than would have everything. What about kids who think if just had the one part of their body diffrent everything would be better? At what point do we stop the idealization that if we were just diffrent everything would be better and start helping kids in other ways.

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The problems that lead to similar outcomes as gender dysphoria, such as body dysmorphic disorder are different and have different treatments.

In the case of trans people with gender dysphoria, it is social and medical transition.

You need to understand that these are different situations that require different approaches, this is why they're approached differently by doctors.

Please I beg you to try to read up and understand the topics you talk about. I don't want to sound hostile, I'm just really tired.

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No, I don't think that. Thank you for putting those words in my argument for me. But you're wrong.

How 'bout you don't be so condescending

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I made those edits immediately.

There was none of that in it when I replied to it, and now there are seventeen "edit edits" and the comment in itself is 600% longer.

You took something personally and revealed something about yourself while doing that. It's just a coincidence if you are one of those people suffering from gynecomastia. But if you are, wouldn't you want to not have to suffer from it? Or if you're fine and don't have it too bad, surely you can imagine people having it worse to the point they might be bullied so severely as to consider self harm? So why wouldn't we give those kids the treatment for that problem, when we have the resources and technology to do it safely?

Also, you didn’t know my sex after saying when I was younger I wanted bigger muscles, a foot of height, and a massive dick?

That was there neither. You went back to write it because you realised that you had gotten offended by me even trying to offend you, so you wrote in some bullshit after justification so it looks like it. I find that sort of behaviour pathetic.

Why haven't you replied to @[email protected] to his comment saying;

Are you actively having a stroke? You were pretty politely informed and corrected and nowhere in the above responses were you attacked in anything but the most mild and tame interpretation of the word.

I hate to toot my own horn here, but I agree with him and have not even insulted you despite this behaviour of yours.

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Argentina's president bans gender-affirming care for people under age 18