What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?
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I believe that the vast majority of people are inherently good, and that tribalism and political divisiveness are some of the biggest issues we have to face.
Political differences arise mostly from different values, fears, education (or lack thereof), etc, but most people if you get to know them believe what they do because they believe it is genuinely good. But increasingly politics is focused on vilifying others, instead of trying to understand each other.
How do we tackle those problems you mentioned?
The reason I ask is I support your view here, but recently I’ve been downvoted a lot for having the opinion that I don’t blame people still using Twitter as I believe, like you, that most people are good people and can be reasoned out of what we believe are the wrong beliefs and that staying in those places to converse with them is better than Twitter becoming a right wing place and us chilling here in left wing ideology but at the end of that nobody learns anything they didn’t already know.
The hardest challenge in changing someone’s beliefs is that people don’t want to admit they were wrong or lied to or used or whatever and this makes it challenging if we can’t take out ego out of the equation.
Anecdotal proof that people can change is a YouTuber called JimmyTheGiant and he has mentioned several times how he went down the alt right pipeline but started to question things and now makes left leaning content.
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I’m surprised you’re not getting downvoted and harassed.
Honestly what I'm saying shouldn't be a hot take. Freedom of speech has long been a classical liberal position.
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Also the freedom to punch each other in the sternum
Insane take. We don't have the right to physical violence just for a difference of opinion.
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I'm working on transitioning to using They/Them pronouns for everyone since they're completely neutral and fit every context. If your preference is Xe/Xem, I respect that—but unfortunately, my brain just doesn't have the bandwidth to keep track of multiple pronouns consistently. You get They/Them.
It might be my inner prescriptivist at work, but while I understand the need for a singular they, I absolutely loathe it's accompanied with a singular are. If the language is being reformed, why not take a page out of AAVE and start using "they's" and "you's"? -
How do we tackle those problems you mentioned?
The reason I ask is I support your view here, but recently I’ve been downvoted a lot for having the opinion that I don’t blame people still using Twitter as I believe, like you, that most people are good people and can be reasoned out of what we believe are the wrong beliefs and that staying in those places to converse with them is better than Twitter becoming a right wing place and us chilling here in left wing ideology but at the end of that nobody learns anything they didn’t already know.
The hardest challenge in changing someone’s beliefs is that people don’t want to admit they were wrong or lied to or used or whatever and this makes it challenging if we can’t take out ego out of the equation.
Anecdotal proof that people can change is a YouTuber called JimmyTheGiant and he has mentioned several times how he went down the alt right pipeline but started to question things and now makes left leaning content.
Genuine question, why do you need to change peoples beliefs? Idk I find that 95% of people are pleasant to talk to and share your views with if you just speak with them nicely and try to understand their POV. And that applies to people who I vehemently disagree with.
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Genuine question, why do you need to change peoples beliefs? Idk I find that 95% of people are pleasant to talk to and share your views with if you just speak with them nicely and try to understand their POV. And that applies to people who I vehemently disagree with.
I wouldn’t say I need to, but more I would like to.
If people are voting against their own interests because they have been lied to then don’t we owe it people to try and get them to see how the world works?
If people are hating on immigrants and poor people rather than the class system that is extracting all the wealth from areas then surely having more people onside makes it easier to change the system.
I agree that most people are good people and maybe just misinformed or have had their frustrations weaponised against them.
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I wouldn’t say I need to, but more I would like to.
If people are voting against their own interests because they have been lied to then don’t we owe it people to try and get them to see how the world works?
If people are hating on immigrants and poor people rather than the class system that is extracting all the wealth from areas then surely having more people onside makes it easier to change the system.
I agree that most people are good people and maybe just misinformed or have had their frustrations weaponised against them.
Have you heard of Daryl Davis? Black dude who convicted KKK members to quit just by being friends with them. I think empathy might be the key, I.e. its hard to be homophobic if your friend is gay.
That's the energy I like to approach discourse with. Its harder online but it is possible.
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Insane take. We don't have the right to physical violence just for a difference of opinion.
Who said anything about opinions?
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Have you heard of Daryl Davis? Black dude who convicted KKK members to quit just by being friends with them. I think empathy might be the key, I.e. its hard to be homophobic if your friend is gay.
That's the energy I like to approach discourse with. Its harder online but it is possible.
I have heard of him actually, well I didn’t know his name but I’ve heard about him.
Exactly my point. You can’t expect people to change on their own and it’s on us to try and make the world a better place, as per our morals.
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Who said anything about opinions?
I did. We were talking about freedom of speech, so opinions and beliefs are about the only things people really disagree about to the point of violence with regards to speech.
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I did. We were talking about freedom of speech, so opinions and beliefs are about the only things people really disagree about to the point of violence with regards to speech.
punches you in the sternum
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punches you in the sternum
Why you would do this?
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Why you would do this?
Words make my head hurt
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I'm curious how you square "they live in a bubble" with them being right?
I live in denial that Capitalism is a broken system but that visage is cracking like an egg in egg_irl every minute that passes.
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Im sorry but as someone with mental illness or sensitivities myself I dont expect the world around me to bend for them.
Gender dysmorphia is similar no? Feeling deeply something internal that changes that affects a minority of the populace.
Just like my history with my mental illness affects a small populace. Why should the world have to bend to my problems?
And acceptance and integration in society has always been there, especially with the left and especially since before pronouns.
I would never expect the intolerable, ignorant, racist, or cruel people to bend their beliefs for me. Its a waste of my energy to want that.
All I can do is surround myself with people who respect me and create my own little tribe in this sometimes cruel world.
Just like my history with my mental illness affects a small populace. Why should the world have to bend to my problems?
Because you matter, and your problems matter >:3
I know it can be hard to feel that way, but the way I see it is - after everything they've taken from us, we can't let them take our self-worth! Most cis people and most abled people I know aren't be ashamed to expect the world to work for them; we don't get points for expecting nothing for ourselves.
I would never expect the intolerable, ignorant, racist, or cruel people to bend their beliefs for me. Its a waste of my energy to want that.
I don't expect them to do that. I don't need them to do that either. I need them to shut up and fuck off. You know, the exact same thing they want the people they oppress to do >:3
As for it being a waste of your energy... that's your call, but personally, I wouldn't be able to keep going if I couldn't imagine a world where the bigots consistently lose. I haven't yet "found my tribe" with people who understand and accept me, and it's not likely to happen in the near future; so the hope that a better world is possible, and that I could help build it, is basically all I have left - and yet, it's been enough to get me this far. Who knows, maybe it'll do something for you.
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Propaganda functions with a pre-supposition of the initial dominance of the material over the immaterial. People are functionally motivated to accept specific ideological and social viewpoints where the material state encouraging that comes first. I think this article makes an interesting case for why this general concept is non-Marxist: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
Thanks for linking the Red Sails article, I've finally gotten around to reading it. Interestingly, while the work critiques even the title of Manufacturing Consent, it provides a similar sense of fulfillment to Manufacturing Consent by providing a material, non-conspiratorial explanation to a more-or-less 'common sense' phenomenon (media control, brainwashing).
In a way, the premise and conclusion echo some wisdom I'd heard before, albeit in a different context: It's not enough to be right.
While that speaker had basically meant that theory is useless if it is never applied, and only used as an "I told you so" after-the-fact, this article makes a related case, that the correctness of an idea doesn't automatically mean it will be accepted by a typical healthy person. And as someone who veers towards a more academic and scientific side of life, where correctness is so valued and there's an expectation that everyone in the scene is on the same page about basic fundamental facts, the brainwashing framework is a convenient and intuitive (even if false) rationalization of why so many people can be so ignorant to these basics (like flat earth theory, anti-germ theory, that level of ignorance). It really is hard to empathize and not be condescending to people in relatively-advanced countries in the modern age still believing that kind of thing. The brainwashing theory is convenient - they've been dupped by a cult leader! the [religion/government] wants to keep them ignorant and encircled them with a false reality! they've been conditioned to be dumb since birth! This explains it! But that only goes so far, there is a point where a person has enough access to information that the brainwashing theory fails to justify their rejection of evidence. I know first hand, like many, that it takes time to dismantle the propaganda pervading our liberalist status quo, but it's not magical or hypnotic.
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